Why Horses Might Not Sell
BlackOak [Basic || 70 posts] on 9/17/2023 1:12 pm
I've been debating this for awhile. And I think I've come to the conclusion that a topic voicing the preferences and reasons why a person may not buy a horse, might help those that are selling... rather NOT selling horses that are posted. Hopefully, a lot of players will participate and maybe we can clean up or horse sales market? Or at least give insight into why horses don't sell.
So, I'll go first.
Here are the reasons I'll forgo a horse purchase.
>A wild, foundation or even custon that's been branded. It is my belief that if you didn't breed the horse, your brand shouldn't be on it. After all, a brand is supposed to be trademark of your production. But that's me and it's one of the reasons I'll skip a purchase. I almost never make exceptions to this. But mistakes can happen, even I've accidentally branded a wild. And I kept that horse (but I was already keeping it!😄).
>Price. This is very likely one that most may list. Unsure of an appropriate price? Apply it into auction as a single bit or a single ingot starting bid with a reserve. Then keep watch. Sometimes if I'm interested in a horse, I'll put how much I think it's worth to give the owner a better understanding of what other people value it.
>I don't see it. Some people will look through the sales if they're actively looking for certain horses. Other times it'll be a quick look through the auctions. But if a horse isn't selling, a shout can certainly go a long way. Interest in horses can be active or inactive. Unless I'm running low on colts or fillies of a particular project, I'm very unlikely to go searching for a horse that may otherwise be of interest to me. In these cases the auction is where I'll take a peak, usually daily.
>The horse has offspring. If it's a wild, foundation or custom and it has foals, my interest in such a horse drops a great deal. That's just me and the way I like my horses when I'm looking at certain projects.
>Low PS. If I look at a lined horse and the horse has super low PS (I'm thinking specifically of PS under 100), I loose all interest in the horse. Trying to build such a horse up, is like trying to pull teeth without painkiller. It's difficult enough to deal with foundation, wild and customs.
>Low TB. If I'm looking at a lined horse for inclusion into my showing projects, a low TB can also kill the deal. It's not so bad if the PS is strong, but a TB under 6 usually kills it for me, regardless. It's far easier to build a horse through the levels and avoid strong competition if you can simply blow past that strong competition in a week or two of training.
>Too many. Beyond all the other reasons, my interest for purchase or my desire to bid or pay higher prices is killed if I get too many horses for any particular project. I like small herds for my projects and have to keep a strict hand on keeping those numbers low.
>Not knowing what it is at a glance. This is another reason I'll overlook a horse. When going through the auctions or the sales, these only list the name of the horse (the sales only lists what the horse is and it's gender). The search does list the name of the horse. Anyway, listing a number of highlighting facts in the name can be quite helpful. But there's not too much room and you want to be concise and thorough for that horse. Crosses are best with the cross they're to make, maybe stars (doesn't always make a difference to me, but to others it does), rare genes sometimes help, especially in auction and I've seen people list variance from breed standard. Also helpful information can be PS and TB. I try to add TB when I'm selling lined horses and rare genes when selling wilds, foundations or customs.
I think that's the most important ones that will make or break a sale for me. Hopefully that'll help others with their sales. And also, hopefully, others will give their reasons and maybe some additional hints. 😊
Oh I've never thought about the brands like that, that's an intereting take and I can definitely see where you're coming from! For me, the main things are:
1. Low TB. Same reasoning as you, I try to avoid anything under a 3, with exceptions for wilds/custom/foundation if they have decent PS. Low PS and low TB together are a total dealbreaker.
2. Age and high price. This one may be unreasonable, but is personal preference. If a horse is over 20 and above 10k, I won't buy unless they have a gene or something that I absolutely need. I just don't like spending a high amount of money with the chance of only having the horse for a few days.
3. Low PS. Same reasoning, but I tend to be pickier and try to avoid anything under 200.
4. For rare breeds, if the breeding limit is reached or they have 3 or more offspring.
This is all I can think of off the top of my head... I'll come back and update if I can think of more!
EDIT to add: I agree with StormHeart, sooo...
5. Inbreeding. I will not buy a horse if there is ANY inbreeding in the visible bloodline.
6. Horses from very popular studs/broods. This ties back into the inbreeding thing, as it just gets hard for me to keep bloodlines clean.
EDIT 2 to add:
7. They're a crossbreed. The only time I have bought crossbreeds was to build up my career horses while I trained some of my own. So, only exception is here for me is high-level career horses. Showing is too time consuming for me to pursue crossbreeds for showing purposes.
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Most horses on the market these days just have awful low PS. I think so many players spam buy horses and then cant sell them later.
I did get lucky recently and got some really nice high PS horses for insanely stupid cheap. But otherwise I rarely buy horses anymore and will just breed mine if I can find good matches as I keep my horses mostly 1k PS and up if not wilds.
THIS.
So many agreed points, but I'll highlight my top ones.
1. Overbred & Inbred lines. I breen for clean lines and if I already have a horse from a certain bloodline, I won't buy another. Common issue is people breed to a popular public stud. I want something that is uniquly bred by you.
2. Second the PS issue. If you have a 4th genertion horse it better be high PS. Otherwise I can just go buy a foundation.
3. High age and low level. I want to buy a horse that has had some of the work done for me.
4. Breed. This one kinda sad, I wish I had all the time in world to hoard, breed, and show horses of muliple breeds, but sadly I am only focusing on TWHs and a couple small side breed projects. So if its not one of the three breeds. I won't buy it even if its the perfect horse.
Breed is good one too. The majority of what is out there is crossbreeds and just randomly bred crossbreeds. Some I buy with high PS to breed back to get grades but most are just low PS mutts honestly.
Right! Crossbreeds!
Didn't even hint on that one. Unnamed crossbreeds have uses, certainly, but they have a much smaller market, in my opinion. So they need to have a decent TB, high PS or some other highlighted feature. Frankly, color genes on crossbreeds just don't draw me in at all. If I want a particular color and want to make a Grade of a breed I have, I'm not going to use some random crossbreed. I'll be heading right to a purebred that has what I want and will be looking at Not degrading the line I've chosen by such things as severely weak PS and completely unleveled horses. There are a lot of breeds already on here that have the genetics I might hunt for. And if I can't find it in one breed, chances are really strong there's at least one other breed that has it.
I don't search for crossbreeds hardly at all. They just don't have anything I want, that I can't find elsewhere.
I have an addition.
Lying in ads.
Okay, so maybe you're new and you don't know and I can accept that. But outright lying in ads makes me lose all desire to buy anything from a particular seller. Even if it's a remarkably rare horse (genes, breed, PS, anything), I have a really poor desire to want to purchase anything from that particular seller in any future sale, auction or even at-stud/at-brood. It has to be some exceptional horse with exceptional combinations for me to gain interest for purchase... so, something like a unicorn.
I almost never buy horses from other players - purely because I've found that the easiest way for me to avoid inbreeding (extra goal for additional challenge!) is to make sure I only start lines from horses that I, personally, have pulled from the foundation store. I'm stricter about this for my Appaloosas than my Sugarbushes, though.
I'll... now and then buy foundation Appaloosas from other players, though if they have more than a few foals then I usually won't buy them after all. I also have particular colors I'm breeding for, so I won't consider leopard Appaloosas or solid ones.
My Sugarbush (cross) herd I'm less picky about, though I still try to avoid inbreeding there too - if I'm buying horses at all, it's usually because I've suddenly realized I'm short on new lines. I still favor foundies/wilds/customs, and if I'm looking for Percherons I'll also try to avoid GG. This herd is the only exception to my "foundie/wild/custom" rule for Appaloosas - I'll buy lined horses if they're fewspot (if with Patn1 and Patn2 both) or blanket. The goal there is at least 4, but ideally 5-6, of the Lp/Patn genes.
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...Because, apparently, heaven forbid I do anything that's not complicated.
@BlackOak what do you mean by lying in ads? What have you seen?
@Maki Such things like offering the PS of a horse, but it's not even close, or giving the star value and it's not what the horse actually has.
In auction, I came across a number of horses suggesting they were wild when they were foundation. I still have no clue if it was an honest mistake by somebody that didn't know any better, or if it was purposeful calling them wild instead of foundations.
But it brought to mind the disappointment I feel when some players misconstrue information. Which is why I included it in this list.
What does TB mean (Kinda-new player here lol)?
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