Variations in game [Update 09/06/22]

SweetChinMusic [Basic || 129 posts] on 7/07/2022 11:05 am

Let me preface this with saying that everything discussed here is only theory and nothing was ever confirmed by admins.

/!\ Updates are added at the end of this post. Some things in the initial post have since been disproved or confirmed but still are written. 


What do we know for sure?

  • Horses with variations appear different from 'regular-marking' horses.
  • According to wiki on the variation page : 'Variations are based on hidden genes that can not be revealed'  and also 'Marking variations occur in the foundation store and pass through breeding'. We can add that variations are inheritable, as the wiki page says 'It is possible for a horse to pass on its marking variation. This occurs at a fairly low rate with a higher chance of the mares marking passing than a stallions variation. This means foals may either have the variation from their sire or dam or the default variation for the gene'. If not inherited, they can only come from foundation (or admin-made/admin-modified horses).
  • Variations happen on the following genes: To (tobiano), Sa1 (sabino), Fr (overo), Rn (roan), Rb (rabicano), SW# (splash white), ma (manchado), da (dapple), D/nd1 (dun), Lp (leopard). 
  • There is several variations for a same gene (Tobiano 2, Sabino 3, Leopard 6, etc...). Note that the number is given according to the name of the layer used to render the image of the horse in-game (for example: https://eqcetera.s3.us-west-2[...]markings/overo3.png will be considered as an Overo 3 variation). Exceptions: Skewed Roan which is a Roan 3 but mostly called skewed roan and Skewed Dun. Skewed Dun is a Dun 2 2 (layer dun2_2) if the dun gene is D but it can also be Dun 1 2 (layer dun_2) if the dun gene is dn1. Regular Dun D is layer dun2 and regular dun nd1 is layer dun.

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My current theory (which is not the absolute truth and please, feel free to discuss why it might not be right):

Variations genes are independent of marking/base genes, meaning that even plain horses can carry variations genes. Breeding a plain horse carrying a variation gene can, with the right pairing, give a foal that will display a variation. A single variation gene can only modify a specific gene or a specific list of gene (example to come below) and can only modify it/them in a specific way (example below). It is possible for a horse to carry more than 1 variation gene at a time.

Premises: let's imagine a plain liver chestnut thoroughbred stallion bought in foundation called 'A'. Let's take a sabino overo liver chestnut thoroughbred mare, called 'B', which comes from a long line of thoroughbreds bred way before the implementation of variations in game.

Special cases that cast a doubt on some parts of the theory:
* I believe the variation gene that modifies Sabino can actually modify Tobiano as well. Both are KIT genes but at the same time Roan only has 3 forms (regular, 2 and skewed).
In-game example:
- Tobiano 3 foundation TB produces a Sabino 3, regular Tobiano and Overo foal out of a LSL Sabino Overo TB.

Thing is, I also have the following horse that suggest that Overo can be modified by the same variation gene than Sabino and Tobiano:
- Overo 3 horse.
What's interesting with this one is that the sire is a regular Overo *but* his own sire and granddam are both Overo 4. His dam on the other end is a foundation Tobiano 3. Maybe one of the parents (likely the dam) carries Overo 3 or like I said earlier, Overo can be modified by the same gene than Sabino/Tobiano, which seems fair as Tovero variations are a thing.

**Since there is no way to test the variation genes and everything is just theory, it is entirely possible that there is simply variation genes like Variation 2, Variation 3, Variation 4, Variation 5, Variation 6 that can modify any marking gene. In this case, point 2 is also invalid.

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07/11
Update:


Tovero variation seems controlled by the Frame variation gene. I did a few searches and here are the results:

Search: Fr variation 2 + To/any variation 1 (regular KIT gene)
Full results:
- Tovero 2, regular Sabino Shetland
- Tovero 2, regular Sabino APH
- Tovero 2 IC
- Tovero 2 APH
- another Tovero 2, regular Sabino APH

Search: Fr variation 1 (regular Overo) + To/any variation 2
Full results:
- Regular Tovero APH
- Regular Tovero TB
- Regular Tovero ASB
- Regular Tovero TWH


So far, I think the variation genes are the following:

Dun: 1 single variation gene 'Skewed' which modifies D or nd1.
Frame/Overo: 5 variation genes (2/3/4/5/6) which will also give the tovero variations if a horse has tobiano as well.
KIT: 5 variation genes (2/3/4/5/6) which modify Tobiano/Sabino/Roan*.
Lp: 5 variation genes (2/3/4/5/6) which modify every combination of leopard patterns (leopard, blanket, varnish roan, etc...).
SW#: 5 variation genes (2/3/4/5/6) which modify Splash White.
Manchado: 1 variation gene which modifies manchado.
Dapple:  1 variation gene 'Reverse' which gives the rare Reverse Dapple.


* Searching for Rn/n horses with a variation 4/5/6 will give a lot of skewed roan results.

08/06/22 Update

Because variation genes are still gene, they must have 2 alleles as well. This mean that a horse can carry 2 variations alleles. For example, E is the Extension gene (black coat) and Ee are the representation of the 2 alleles.

Genetics D or nd1 Fr Lp Sw Sa1 Rn To ma da
Hidden Var Genes D(s) Fr(2), Fr(3), Fr(4), Fr(5), Fr(6) Lp(2), Lp(3), Lp(4), Lp(5), Lp(6)

Sw(2), Sw(3), Sw(4), Sw(5), Sw(6)

KIT(2), KIT(3), KIT(4), KIT(5), KIT(6) ma(2) da(r)

 

A horse could, for example, be KIT(2)KIT(5) and pass one of the variation gene. Reminder that because a horse possesses the gene doesn't mean that the foal *will* express the variation.


 

09/06/22 Update

It seems that Overo and To/Rn/Sa1 are actually affected by the same variation gene! I have this mare who is a daughter of an admin-modified stallion. By that, I mean that the stallion who had no variation genes, because he's from a LSL, received a designated variation gene (Tovero 3). This daughter of his doesn't show a tovero variation but appears in the search results when looking for a Tobiano variation 3. I adressed in the initial post that Tovero variation seems controlled by the Overo gene rather than Tobiano. Her sabino isn't modified either (layer is sabino.png). The only possibility left is that To/Rn/Sa1/Fr are affected by the same variation gene.

New variation gene rable would be the following:

Genetics D or nd1 Lp Sw Fr Sa1 Rn To ma da
Hidden Var Genes D(s)

Lp(2), Lp(3), Lp(4), Lp(5),
Lp(6)

Sw(2), Sw(3), Sw(4), Sw(5), Sw(6)

KIT(2), KIT(3), KIT(4), KIT(5), KIT(6) ma(2) da(r)

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This marks the end of my rambling about variations. Feel free to add more and link horses with interesting breeding results!

You can join us at the Variation Experimentation Society club to help solve this mystery here!


WirelessMouse

Post Count: 36

7/07/2022 11:18 am

This is like, exactly how I thought they'd work after seeing that skewed you posted!! 

I think we can easily test which theory is correct by breeding a variation horse extensively with other horses carrying genes capable of variation- 

for example, I have a variation 2 Tobiano Brumby, I can breed it to Sabino brumbies, Overo and Splash Morgans, and I even have a Leopard brumby I can test with. Obviously we won't know for sure, but if any foals pop out with a variation2 on any gene other than Tobiano, we'll know for sure the Variation gene can affect any gene capable of a variation.

Edited 1 times

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Talented but lazy



Rhea

Post Count: 98

7/07/2022 12:15 pm

wait, I know I have at least one horse somewhere that has more than one variation. Might be helpful to keep track of it & the future offspring

Morgan with sabino & splash variation

This one has sabino & splash variation 4.

Edited 3 times




SweetChinMusic

Post Count: 129

8/06/2022 10:43 am

Added a small update at the end of the main post!



Royal Legacy Ranch

Post Count: 49

9/06/2022 2:25 pm

I have a few skewed horses I'd be happy to share to test theory's 

 

 

Darlington Demo

 ♕



SweetChinMusic

Post Count: 129

9/07/2022 5:25 am

Honestly, all help is very much welcome!


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